K8VNXP / VIA 8237 vs. Hitachi Ultrastar

[Oxfamqc]

Hello to all,

This is not an uncommon issue, but no threads are specific to the Ultrastar. I just purchased an Ultrastar 500GB SATA drive to replace my 250GB SATA Desktar, which always worked fine. The Ultrastar is not being detected at all by the motherboard/via southbridge sata controller.

After spending countless hours trying to make a new Windows XP install on the drive and trying different tricks and settings, nothing works, the drive just lays there 'dead'.

I read many posts stating that VIA's 8237 is not capable of handling Hitachi SATA II drives and Hitachi told me to use their FTools to change the settings to SATA 150, however since the drive isn't being detected, that makes using the software impossible!

My 250GB Deskstar was set to SATA I out of the box I guess, but the new Ultrastar is obviously set to SATA 300 out of the box.

There is no jumper on the drive to manually set to SATA I. I bought this drive knowing I wouldn't keep the motherbaord forever, however I am expecting at least another year of usage!

I went on Gigabyte's website to try to find a solution, but I have the latest BIOS, and have the latest drivers from VIA too that I used to make the install disk.

Does anyone have a suggestion to get around this? Can't say I'm very impressed by VIA right now.

[tcsenter]

Its a known issue for five years now. Most drive manufacturers offer a jumper clip for 1.5Gbps compatibility. Its not VIA's fault that Hitachi makes you do it in firmware. Hitachi should have people smart enough to anticipate such a Catch 22.

The reason to even offer 1.5Gbps compatibility setting is because there are instances where the drive won't work. If the feature can only be accessed on a working drive, how are you going to set it? It would be like a drive manufacturer deciding to move the Master/Slave selection for PATA drives into firmware then eliminating the Master/Slave jumper.

You'll need to use another non-VIA mainboard to run Hitachi's utility.

[fs_jim]

Just my 5 cents. I have Samsung HD103UJ 1 TB drive and suffer from exactly the same problem - 8237R does not recognize it at all. Fortunately, my mobo (ECS KV2 Extreme) is equipped with an additional SATA SiS 180 controller, which works with SATA II drives nicely. I've used Samsung SwitchSpeed utility to force 1.5 Gbps mode but it didn't help. Wonder if it would be possible to correct this in updated 8237 drivers?

[tcsenter]

Originally Posted by fs_jim

Wonder if it would be possible to correct this in updated 8237 drivers?

No.

[fs_jim]

Originally Posted by tcsenter

No.

Do you know exactly why? I mean in technical terms. One of the guys assumed that it could be some kind of drive capacity limit of 8237 (Re: Samsung 1T Hard drives) which I know is not the case as my 1TB Maxtor works ok with the chipset. Is detailed description of 8237 (at register level) obtainable for free?

[tcsenter]

Originally Posted by fs_jim

Do you know exactly why? I mean in technical terms.

In technical terms, drivers can't fix BIOS or firmware problems. Since it does not appear related to an older BIOS choking on newer disk capacities (because the Maxtor works), it most likely is your average firmware or BIOS glitch with that particular Samsung model or maybe Samsung's firwmare implementation in general.

You often see this kind of thing included in various BIOS update release notes, like 'patch for [insert manufacturer name here] 1TB drive', or something along those lines.

[fs_jim]

Originally Posted by tcsenter

In technical terms, drivers can't fix BIOS or firmware problems.

Sometimes they can work around them. And when I wrote about drivers I meant not only files used by OS, but modules for BIOS as well. AFAIK the latest BIOS module released for 8237 is 4.97.

Since it does not appear related to an older BIOS choking on newer disk capacities (because the Maxtor works), it most likely is your average firmware or BIOS glitch with that particular Samsung model or maybe Samsung's firwmare implementation in general.

I think it can be both. Sure it could be fixed by Samsung releasing corrected firmware but chances for this happening are rather slim IMO (though I wrote them about the problem). That's why I asked if VIA could do something about it

You often see this kind of thing included in various BIOS update release notes, like 'patch for [insert manufacturer name here] 1TB drive', or something along those lines.

Yup. So again: question for tech VIA people - can you release new drivers for BIOS and Windows which would allow 1 TB Samsung drives to work on 8237 southbridge?

[tcsenter]

Originally Posted by fs_jim

I think it can be both. Sure it could be fixed by Samsung releasing corrected firmware but chances for this happening are rather slim IMO (though I wrote them about the problem). That's why I asked if VIA could do something about it

The chances that VIA could do anything about it are all the more bleak, since VIA does not do BIOS updates for ECS motherboards. The VIA SATA ROM is embedded in the motherboard BIOS by the motherboard manufacturer. Only ECS can update this code for its own motherboard. Or a third-party BIOS modder could do it, if he knew what he was doing and obtained a newer SATA ROM.

Samsung, however, indeed does its own firmware for its own branded drives, which resides on the drive itself with no dependency on design or implementation of another party.

And no, drivers cannot produce a work-around for an impasse that occurs during BIOS-level initialization, before the driver could be loaded.

[fs_jim]

Originally Posted by tcsenter

The chances that VIA could do anything about it are all the more bleak, since VIA does not do BIOS updates for ECS motherboards.

No. However, they release general code (driver) that works with particular chip (here: 8237) no matter who produced particular motherboard. Actually, I updated my ECS BIOS with 4.97 VIA module which I extracted from some other manufacturer's BIOS (don't remember which one now but it wasn't ECS for sure). There are tools for this purpose - like cbrom for Award BIOSes.

The VIA SATA ROM is embedded in the motherboard BIOS by the motherboard manufacturer. Only ECS can update this code for its own motherboard. Or a third-party BIOS modder could do it, if he knew what he was doing and obtained a newer SATA ROM.

Exactly. Chances ECS will release new BIOS for my mobo are not slim - they are exactly zero or null. They just don't care; have issues? - buy newer product, period. Fortunately, there are other manufacturers who care to offer support for longer. So VIA, please release updated code and I will hopefully manage to integrate it with my BIOS without ECS help.

Samsung, however, indeed does its own firmware for its own branded drives, which resides on the drive itself with no dependency on design or implementation of another party.

Sure they do, that's why I wrote them. Unfortunately, they don't seem to care. Let's face it - manufacturers are not interested with longevity of their products. Nowadays one is supposed to buy new things as often as possible. It doesn't matter your old stuff is still perfectly usable; if it doesn't physically broke, they find other ways to force you to dump it. Sad but true.

And no, drivers cannot produce a work-around for an impasse that occurs during BIOS-level initialization, before the driver could be loaded.

Maybe, I don't know about inner workings of current BIOSes - source code is not publicly available AFAIK. Maybe 8237 goes busy-loop at hardware level before BIOS VIA driver (module) has a chance to load. In that case, yes, work around is not possible. I don't know; I'd like to hear from VIA engineering stuff about this.

[tcsenter]

Originally Posted by fs_jim

Actually, I updated my ECS BIOS with 4.97 VIA module which I extracted from some other manufacturer's BIOS (don't remember which one now but it wasn't ECS for sure).

V4.97 is the latest I've encountered for the 3149 controller (VT8237/R). I doubt there are any newer versions of the 3149 ROM since manufacturers have moved to the VT8237A or VT8237S variants for new designs released in the past 18 months or so.

The fact that a newer option ROM does not solve this, assuming that your modded BIOS is viable (100% functional), causes me to doubt whether the problem relates to the VIA SATA ROM. While the option ROM is a prime suspect in these issues, it is not the only component of the BIOS that is involved in drive initialization or detection.

In that case, yes, work around is not possible. I don't know; I'd like to hear from VIA engineering stuff about this.

You came to the wrong place. There are no VIA technical staff here. There is only a VIA marketing rep who pops-in every so often. I can say with some confidence that she will not respond to the type of inquiry you are making.

You can try contacting VIA technical support:

Contact Us - VIA Technologies, Inc.

Select Technical Support for "type of enquiry". Good luck.